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Podcast: How To Be Your Own Worst Client: The Story of Re-designing Our Website

Russell:

Okay

Christy:

I think it’s going to record.

Russell:

Cool.

Christy:

It’s not going to be the best sound quality to this one anyway.

Tom:

Who’s going to introduce it?

Russell:

Christy

Christy:

Really?

Christy:

Hello. We’re Lighthouse London and we found ourselves in the country side. And it just happens to coincide with the nearing of us ending finishing our site so we thought we’d talk about it in the country side, in a nice garden. With me I’ve got Dan Gent, Russell Bishop, and Tom Johnson.

Dan:

Hello.

Russell:

Hello.

Tom:

Hello.

Christy:

And it’s kind of like garden hour but we’re a website clan type thing and you can’t actually ring in to give us any questions either.

Russell:

So we’re currently sat in sunny Laverton, in or outside of Bath. Is it near Bath? We’re here for a little break, a getaway. We’ve been spending today doing a bit of hacking. Just a quick bit of building and sketching and stuff on one of our internal projects and generally lolling around.

Dan:

It’s been good.

Russell:

Yeah, I think it’s been a good day.

Dan:

Absolutely.

Tom:

Yeah and we watched Commando.

Dan:

Yup, we did watch Commando.

Russell:

Actually, I watched the most Commando.

Christy:

Yeah, you did.

Russell:

Did you see any Commando, Christy?

Christy:

Yeah, I saw the beginning of it.

Russell:

You went to bed.

Christy:

I did go to bed.

Russell:

You all went to bed and left me with the film.

Dan:

Absolutely. Well, it was fairly obvious where it was going

Christy:

Arnie kills a bunch of people. Saves Phoebe from Charmed.

Dan:

The film literally finishes the moment that happens. There’s no after thoughts.
Rusell: Thanks for ruining the ending. Can’t believe it.

Christy:

But this place is absolutely ridiculous. It’s in a kind of U-shape and it’s pretty much all on one floor and it’s got a couple of upstairs bits. It’s something a drug lord might hide out in

Russell:

Delete the drug lord comments.

Christy:

Steven, we know what you’re doing.

Dan:

It’s a converted dairy.

Christy:

We’re going to talk about our website and how we kind of approached that. Because of the nature of it, I didn’t necessarily have that much to do with it but you guys did so I’m going to quiz you.

Tom:

Nice.

Christy:

I suppose it actually started about almost two years ago when I first joined the company and we — well that wasn’t the proper start of it. Well, it kind of was the start of it.

Tom:

Probably was.

Dan:

Should have been.

Christy:

It was pretty much that I should probably have my head on the website as well but it was too awkward to think of a design with three people so we had to hire another person. So obviously we had to postpone it until we hired another person to even out the design, which was Russell.
Once Russell turned up — then we probably should revamp our website.

Dan:

You don’t hire faces like you guys and then keep them off the website.

Tom:

Waste them.

Christy:

So I remember it being quite hard to be a client.

Dan:

Yeah, it is hard to be a client.

Christy:

It is. I understand now when clients come to the table and you’re like, “What do you want?” And we can’t finish. We’re like, “How can you not know what they bloody wanted? You come here. You must know what you wanted.”

Russell:

We sat there like — I think we certainly didn’t know much of what we wanted, did we? Because we had a lot of questions as to what we were going to write about, what we were going to say differently.

Christy:

Yeah. So do you — would you say that the challenges were less around design and stuff like that and more to do with…

Tom:

All about messaging, wasn’t it? Design wasn’t really that big a deal but what we were trying to say and who we were trying to say it to is hard. You always give this advice to clients about how they can do it. When you try it yourself you realize it’s quite tricky.

Russell:

I seem to remember one of the first things that we banded around was that screenshot of a hundred different websites that had the same use of a tagline, big image at the top and it’s like “How do we not be this? What approach do we need to not that?”

Christy:

So we put the tagline at the bottom, right?

Russell:

Tagline at the bottom, exactly.

Christy:

It’s that kind of thing. Listen to the end of this podcast and you can win something great. We’ve done the same thing with our website, apart from the tagline. So at the top, where the tagline should be, it says, I don’t know, read this website for the tagline or some shit.

Tom:

Scroll down for the tagline.

Dan:

Yeah, and then at the bottom you win understanding on what on Earth we’re about.

Christy:

Half baked ideas, half baked websites.

Dan:

I think web design subjects always sort of expose where there’s mixed messages within the company. When you ask a client to tell you what to put on the website you’re basically asking them what they do. That’ll often uncover the fact that they’re not quite sure how to say what they do and I think that completely happened for us.

Russell:

Also in the advent of us taking on — just starting new offerings you would see that. We started doing more research, content strategy was a new thing we were talking about. All these little things and it’s like we need to work out what place that has against the stuff that we’ve been doing for a long time.

Dan:

Absolutely. And we had you two guys going, “What do we do?” Whereas before it has just been Tom and I just going, “Oh, all right, say we do design.” This time it was like, “No. We actually have to work out what we’re doing as a company.” I think that can take a while.
I would say probably a mistake is to not launch until you know. In fact, I would say you should probably launch when you even get the slightest inkling. I think that’s the ridiculous thing about our website is that it hasn’t changed in that long.

Christy:

The whole thing behind it was kind of this trying out our end techniques on ourselves, as it were, and being a good client. How much of a good client do you think they’ve been? How strict have you been with yourself if you get what I mean?

Tom:

I think we’ve stuck to it but it’s taken a long time. Mainly because other work comes along and you have to focus on that because you’ve got to earn money. I think we’ve stuck to what we said we’d do and we have done it quite methodically. Maybe not quite in the right order every time but I think we’ve been all right. I haven’t been annoyed at myself that much.

Russell:

No.

Christy:

No.

Russell:

I definitely found that when it came to the design two issues I had were that I didn’t really feel like we had a clear and free for it until — Like it would have been easier to design any other site than ours at that point. And —

Tom:

The design was almost an after thought, wasn’t it? Like we pieced it together out of nowhere.

Russell:

Yeah, it kind of has been a little bit like that.

Tom:

I feel like —

Russell:

Yeah, in fact I would say some of our grief came about in me trying a bit of design and wondering what will people think of this? Which is the wrong order of things.

Christy:

Did we have wire frames?

Russell:

No.

Tom:

No, we didn’t actually.

Dan:

But I feel like we did the same with the copy in that there were several bits where one of us would come with a bit of messaging or an evolved idea of what it should be like. It would normally get torn apart but it would leave in its place is a bit more understanding of where we wanted to go.

Tom:

Yeah.

Russell:

Yeah. Definitely.So instead of that, instead of saying that you skipped to the design, would you say that we used design as an exercise to fulfill the grief?

Tom:

I like it.

Christy:

I have to say though, thinking back over it, we weren’t very good clients. We did the ultimate kind of — just random features and focus …

Dan:

It wouldn’t work. It would not have worked as a client project.

Tom:

Because that’s the thing. Because we know what we’re doing that allows us that scope to be a bit different, I guess.

Christy:

I feel like the things we explored and talked about most were things like, “What about a contact form where it kind of like talks back at you, loads up your brief …”

Dan:

That was the worst thing when a client comes with something like that. You’re like that doesn’t matter. At one point I wrote the homepage in a form which you’d probably say you could have put out. Imagine if a client was like, “Oh. Here’s my homepage” and then it was like, “You know what? It’s completely wrong.” Really?

Russell:

Joking.

Dan:

What do you tell them? We’ll just put it out and then change it?

Tom:

Yeah.

Dan:

And that’s — I think that’s a double edged sword, isn’t it? We have the luxury of knowing that there’s no one — no one’s going to turn around and go, “Sorry. Time’s up. We’ve got a launch.” Like we have to sometimes with clients. But at the same time, at least those clients launch something and we haven’t for two years.

Tom:

Yup.

Russell:

Yeah. Very true.

Christy:

So how would you compare it to the last time you guys did your site before?

Tom:

Well, the last time it took ages as well. Every time we do our own site it’s always hard work. Always takes twice as long. You think about it too much. But last time I think we pulled out a similar thing where we’ve got quite far down and we just can’t get this done.

Russell:

Has that site evolved much from when you first launched it?

Dan:

No.

Tom:

Well, that version of it?

Dan:

Yeah.

Tom:

That’s not changed apart from adding some more case studies.

Dan:

It took a while to get to the point — When we launched that site it was exactly what we wanted to say. I feel like the site we’re about to launch is exactly where we’re at now. I think one change will be — and maybe we’ll talk about this later — is how we kind of don’t get into this again. Instead have it always pretty much where we want it.

Christy:

Yeah, because as a web agency we kind of actually iterate on it.

Dan:

Well, everyone should iterate on their sites.

Tom:

Yeah. It should be a regular thing rather than every couple of years. You should always redoing a section or adding something here and there rather than being like, “Cool. That’s done. Let’s forget about it for a while.” You’ve got to be evolving it.

Christy:

We should probably just take pictures of ourselves and replace them every month. Just make sure the pictures are always in date.

Christy:

Every time anyone ever gets a haircut, huh?

Tom:

Every day.

Russell:

Yeah, every day.

Tom:

Get today’s paper…

Russell:

I need a fresh haircut for the new website.

Dan:

You do. That was said… Do I need a new haircut, Tom?

Tom:

You always need a haircut.

Dan:

Cool. Know we know. What about yourself?

Tom:

Yeah…

Russell:

I’ll have one.

Dan:

You feeling website ready?

Tom:

No.

Dan:

Okay.

Christy:

Are we going to get someone in to do the photographs?

Dan:

To do the haircuts?

Christy:

Are we going to get a stylist?

Tom:

Yeah.

Dan:

Why not?

Christy:

Yeah, I think so.

Dan:

Why not? That’s exactly the sort of thing a good client would do.
“We can’t go live yet because we can’t find the right stylist.”

Christy:

But we probably need to get direction as well. In style, that is. In house style.

Dan:

Are you thinking the way KISS all have similar make up but variations of it?

Christy:

I mean we are a four man band. I mean web agency.

Tom:

Yeah.

Dan:

Yeah.

Tom:

We could getdone up like KISS

Christy:

And you were talking about wanting to make a metal version of our logo.

Tom:

Hell yeah.

Christy:

All I’m saying…

Tom:

We’d have to rip up the site.

Christy:

I hear there’s a lot of money in the music business.

Tom:

You hear wrong.

Dan:

There’s a lot of make up in the music business though. So it depends on what you value.

Christy:

So if there’s a single feature you would pick out about the new website that you’d want to talk about right now, talk about it.

Russell:

I will.
Personally, for me, I enjoy doing the what we do section of the website, which is where we try to explain how our single services make up some archetypal, typical projects. So for example if we have a marketing website as a project — Well, I think we’ve just called it website, haven’t we?
How that is kind of a set of services that we might offer somebody to try to make a show of those as a group. The analogy we’ve used is to use a deck of cards to show that. Each service is a card and then they make up decks in typical projects.

Dan:

Like a hand in poker.

Russell:

Like a hand in poker! Yeah, yeah.

Dan:

A winning hand for our clients.

Russell:

Now if we don’t use that…

Dan:

Yeah, we should definitely use that.

Christy:

Did you draw any inspirations when we did a content workshop a couple of months back? Did you draw any inspiration from one of the workshops that we did with Anna. Where she had all the archetypal characters from stories?

Russell:

Yeah, it might have been. It was coupled with that and we — I don’t know where the idea came up quite early to do the set of shapes.

Christy:

Russell’s an avid Magic: The Gathering player.

Tom:

I might have just done the shapes.

Russell:

Yeah, maybe it’s from an early bit of design that you thought of.

Tom:

I think I started with triangles.

Dan:

We started with the shapes and then we gave then meaning.

Russell:

Yeah.

Dan:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan:

The meaning being that, I think, with the things you need to do in a web project these days. These days?
Not like the past. It’s like literally now the things you need to do — so many of them. So many different little techniques that you could basically formulate an agency around any of them. You could be a research only agency. A content only agency.
I think we find ourselves pulling from all of those things. Instead of trying to explain the — when we do a project we’re kind of picking the right set of services to do in that project. If it needs research we do research. Every project’s a little bit different. I think that was where we suddenly took the shapes that had been used as the background and it feels like all of those shapes could be different —

Russell:

Elements.

Dan:

Yeah, like elements. I’m sure a periodic table was mentioned at one point and actually rip it up and do a periodic table. Now. That’s what we want.

Christy:

Confusing clients into giving us more money.

Dan:

Yeah. Or our card tricks.

Christy:

Now you see it. Now you don’t.

Dan:

Was this your card?

Christy:

Yeah. Was this your card? Well, this is your credit card.

Tom:

Wow.

Dan:

Exactly.

Christy:

So there’s obviously the behind the scenes, the content thought behind all of that. But also the way that it’s being displayed is quite cool.

Tom:

Yeah. It’s looking good.

Russell:

We’ve done that animation set where you open up the deck of cards and view each service.

Christy:

Have you used the sound API to do a [card flipping sound]?

Russell:

No but we definitely could.

Christy:

Because I’ve got the sound effect right there. [card flipping sounds] See that? Card.

Russell:

What the heck is that noise?

Christy:

You never played Solitaire? You know, when you do…

Dan:

Yeah, it does make a noise like that.

Tom:

We could think about that.

Russell:

Yeah, we could do that.

Tom:

Phase two?

Christy:

Phase two. Did you just feature chop me?

Russell:

You’ve just been feature chopped.

Dan:

Yeah, you’ve just got feature chopped.

Russell:

Let’s not think about that now. Let’s focus on something else.

Christy:

When you come to that page you select a preset hand?

Tom:

Yeah, it’s trying to appeal to the different clients we have. That’s been one of the things we’ve thought way too long about is who we’re marketing at now. It turns out it’s a bunch of different people so that’s why we put together those different projects.

Dan:

Turns out it’s humans with money.

Tom:

Yeah, quite wide ranging really.

Russell:

I think humans is too specific. Just money. Just money and sign.
What’s that? Your dog wants a website? Well, here’s a prototype for him.

Tom:

Ruff, ruff.

Russell:

We’ll do a —

Christy:

Here’s a ruff sketch.

Tom:

We won’t do it pro-bono.

Russell:

Oh yes.

Christy:

So if we went through the sections of the website because it’s not the traditional about us. It’s kind of a little bit different, isn’t it?

Russell:

Yeah. It’s like a bit of a journey. It is. Well, even in our case studies that we’re currently finishing up today or doing some more work on today, we’re telling the story of the projects so that’s one of the things that we wanted to get away from, wasn’t it? The big screenshot on the IMAX screen, this is a short description, then link to the site. We want to show the journey that we took to get to that. Make it a bit more…

Tom:

Not just focusing on how something looks but trying to tell what we did and how we made a difference. Because I think that’s quite an interesting story to tell.

Russell:

Yeah. Because if we just focus on how it looks then it’s just like we designed this thing.

Tom:

It doesn’t really say anything does it?

Russell:

That’s never just what we’ve done for somebody. There’s always a lot more.

Dan:

That’s not really what web design is any more, is it? It’s —

Tom:

Sometimes things don’t look flashy but that’s done for a reason and you need to know why. You need to know the thought behind it and how you got to that end result.

Dan:

Absolutely. I think it’s — I mean web design used to be about making it look nice but basically just looking nice. If you go to a template site, they all look nice so it’s kind of trying to explain the value in each project so someone might relate to that and say, “Okay. I’ve got those sort of problems. These guys can solve them.”

Tom:

Certainly can.

Christy:

So it’s more based around the work we’ve done in the past and relating that to clients? Because I do find — well, if I ever went and had a meeting in a subject that I didn’t know a lot about, I imagine it can just be completely overwhelming. If you could relate it back to something —

Tom:

We’ve picked out a few key projects that we’ve worked on that all tell a slightly different story. There’s one that’s based on entrepreneurs and people who are venturing into startup world. There’s ones that are just sort of brochure websites to show that we can do that. Each one’s got a different spin on it so the people will read and connect with it and say, “Cool. I realize that these guys can do that for me.”

Dan:

We’re trying to edit that story as well so that — you know, obviously every project we do some design and development on but there’s no point — you don’t want to talk about that in every case study. You want to talk about it when that was the key thing in that.
I think we’ve talked previously about the 4-Wardrobe project where there was a lot of technical innovation and it was also an e-commerce site. The story of it isn’t that it wasn’t e-commerce. You don’t need to tell that bit.
I’m quite happy with how the case studies are just quite punchy little narratives based on one aspect of the problem. That altogether sort of cover all the different types of things we work at.

Russell:

Yeah. Definitely.

Christy:

And do those case studies then feed back in to those archetype cards?

Dan:

Yes. Absolutely. It’s sort of a network of content nodes really.

Christy:

Are they real time?

Dan:

Real time network content nodes? Framework. But it’s — they —

Christy:

JS. Dot JS.

Dan:

Dot JS. They all — the idea is that you can kind of — whatever entry point you go in on, if you go in on us explaining how we do it or if you go in on case studies. I think this is obviously one of the great things about the web is that it all interlinks. If you want a case study where we did prototyping you can then obviously go and read about prototyping. Find more case studies about it or find out exactly what it is. So yeah the idea is that you get lost in our world.

Russell:

Lost in lighthouse.

Dan:

Lost in lighthouse. Lost in the lighthouse. Nice.

Christy:

So I saw you were working… Lost in the lighthouse. Pretty hard to get lost in a lighthouse. That’s pretty much one way up and one way down.

Christy:

Yeah, but if you’re halfway up …

Russell:

Well, there’s two ways down and one way up.

Dan:

I’m not talking about physically lost. I’m talking about mentally lost.

Russell:

Oh. Okay.

Tom:

I think it’s quite easy to get mentally lost in a lighthouse.

Dan:

Staring out to sea.

Tom:

Surrounded by sea and dark.

Christy:

I just like corners. It just doesn’t work for me.

Tom:

Yeah, you wouldn’t get in on there.

Christy:

Just does not work for me. And as you guys were designing for yourselves, as it were, did you get to put a bit more flare on it and really show off?

Dan:

Cause if you did it doesn’t show. Oh. Burn.

Tom:

[rim shot]

It’s really — it’s my flashest work ever. I can’t believe Dan just said that. I think we really pushed ourselves to our limits.
No, I don’t think we did really. I think it’s actually quite a simple — we early on decided that the content’s the most important thing and actually spent ages on that. Then just putting something over the top that’s nice looking. I mean, I really like it. I think it’s actually really good work.

Dan:

Do you feel extra pressure to make it nice because it’s our site?

Tom:

Yeah. There always is that. Definitely. But then — yeah.

Dan:

Then why didn’t you? I’ve already done that. Sorry.

Christy:

The case study headers were pretty cool.

Tom:

Yes. I think we, well certainly my idea, was to have something that looked classy and clean and all the normal stuff and I’m really a fan of simple designs anyway so I think what we’ve come up with as a joint effort really hits the mark there. Just the idea that in a little spot section, something a little bit special so the case studies is a good example so at the top of each page we’re hoping to have a tiny little animation. It just adds that little flourish to it. It works really nicely but it doesn’t detract from the fact that we want people to read what’s going on. It’s not style over substance. It’s like, very much substance there but there’s a little bit of garnish on top. Parsley.

Dan:

Garnish is a superb name and garnish JS would be a superb JavaScript library for doing that

Christy:

Plain website and it just jingles a couple things.

Dan:

But you’re completely right because what those headers do, which is actually meaningful to the design is say there’s been some time spent here on this case study so read it. It says, “Okay. Someone’s actually bothered with this. Possibly, this is going to be worth my time reading it.”

Russell:

We’ve created a nice reading experience and we haven’t distracted you with us showing off that we can do nice design, basically. That’s not the point of the website.

Dan:

Though it sort of is.

Tom:

Well, it’s not though, is it?

Dan:

Really?

Tom:

No.

Russell:

If it was then —

Tom:

But the expertise we’re showing off is the other stuff. It’s what we do for people and how we build a better website than our competition. Which, of course, we do.

Christy:

Was there any workshops that we did that we would do with clients?

Russell:

Well, we did our own jobs pains and gains, didn’t we?

Tom:

We did. Yeah.

Russell:

And we did that for each type of person that we’re speaking to Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So we have personas. We did jobs, pains and gains. That’s good. That’s us being a good client for ourselves.

Tom:

Well, it definitely helped us.

Dan:

It did help. That’s it.

Tom:

It made it harder though because then we realized the challenge we had of quite a disperse group of people, some of whom we don’t even really know yet, and how to write for them.

Dan:

And also taking our own advice that we give out was just a kind of be brave and go for a niche and only sell to the people, you know, your dream client. When it came to actually making that decision for ourselves and going, well, are we actually turning away work by getting rid of this messaging on our website? That was — you realize why it takes so long for people to decide to do that. You felt a bit of that pain. Definitely more than last time. Then I think we’ve probably got — the business is that bit more complex than last time.

Tom:

It’s way more complex than last time. Last time it was easy. It was me and you sitting in a room, small room, making websites. I designed and you coded. That was kind of it. Now it’s way more complicated.

Dan:

That was a lovely message, wasn’t it?

Tom:

And it really worked. That site was very well met.

Dan:

What a site.

Tom:

When we launched it.

Dan:

People absolutely dug it. And now we’ve got to make them dig it again but on different terms.

Russell:

But better.

Dan:

Yeah. More digging. Or equally but just differently.

Tom:

So do we all feel more empathy with our clients now that we’ve gone through this process?

Dan:

I think it’s so that you can’t compare it, can you? The pressures, the motivations are so different.

Russell:

I think for us to do that we’d have to go to another website agency to do our site for us.

Dan:

Some agencies do that, you know?

Tom:

Yeah, they do.

Dan:

But a big —

Tom:

I find that really weird though.

Dan:

But I can see why it happens.

Russell:

Where’s the pride in that though? Like what —

Dan:

Because who are you going to — you need — I think at a certainsize, right? I think if an agency like us did it that would be super weird.

Christy:

Well, I can’t really comment on it because my interaction with clients isn’t with this type of website.

Dan:

You’re aura’s on there though, mate.

Christy:

Brash. Bold.

Dan:

I can feel you through it and as we iterate on it I want to bring more of you into it.

Christy:

Into the forefront.

Dan:

Yeah.

Christy:

Yeah. That would do. Well, I always said you should just market me.

Dan:

I’ll tell you what we should do. We should sub domain and relaunch the old site design but instead of me and Tom it’s just Christy.

Tom:

Two Christys.

Dan:

It’s just him. Two of him?

Tom:

He designs and codes.

Dan:

Exactly. The proverbial unicorn.

Tom:

This is Christy. He designs. This is Christy. He codes.

Dan:

This is Christy. He’s annoying

Christy:

You’re not seeing double. You’re just blessed.

Dan:

He’s on your project.

Christy:

He’s on your project. Don’t fuck him off now.

Dan:

That would be decent.

Russell:

I think a freelancer that design and develops should use that idea for their site. Just have two of them.

Tom:

Yeah.

Russell:

I code and I —

Tom:

What’s the Jean Claude Van Damme film where he plays the twins?

Dan:

Double Impact.

Tom:

Double Impact. Double Impact web design.

Dan:

Just have — just be like a load of roundhouse kicks.

Christy:

Roundhouse kicking you into business.

Dan:

There was a moment in that film where he double round — two Jean Claude Van Dammes does a double roundhouse kick on someone.

Tom:

I’ve not seen it.

Christy:

What’s the Jean Claude —

Dan:

It’s the moment you’re waiting for. I mean, it’s like all Jean Claude Van Damme films you’re just waiting for the roundhouse kick. In Double Impact, it’s like their both going to roundhouse kick the same bloke at the same time.

Tom:

Why didn’t we watch this film last night?

Christy:

Which is the one where he’s in a mall and there’s someone running through the mall and he doesn’t do a roundhouse kick but he kind of brings his leg up behind him and does like a donkey kick? Which film was that?

Dan:

Yeah. Okay.

Christy:

I think that might just be JCVD.

Dan:

I absolutely love the idea of giving something to the first person who views the website. How would you do that? You just track the first…

Christy:

Yeah, track the first view.

Dan:

You could even do a pop-up. I mean, they’re not going to buy it though, are they? You’re the first person to view our website?

Russell:

No.

Tom:

What if it was us though? It would be us because we’ll be checking the site.

Russell:

Let’s record a video of us saying you’re the first to visit the website. We’ve done this for you.

Dan:

You really are. And then have it jiggling around.

Christy:

And every time they move their mouse near it, it moves.

Russell:

Yeah, so you can’t hit the X. I think maybe we should get our cards, our service cards, printed on actual cards and send a pack to someone.

Dan:

I like it.

Russell:

That would be wicked. I’d love to get that.

Dan:

I like it. I want to sit in a meeting and deal. Actually just have a card game with them.

Tom:

Yeah.

Dan:

Snap.

Tom:

I’ve got prototyping. What have you got?

Dan:

Oh my God. This game.

Christy:

So —

Tom:

I’ve got e-commerce.

Christy:

That is.

Dan:

I’m a complete loser.

Christy:

So that’s about everything and we’re going to go do what every one of our clients does when we finish a project with them and that’s they take us out. So we’re just about to go out in Bath and be taken out by a client, which happens to be us. But our other clients also take us out.

Tom:

I hope we’re not stingy bastards.

Christy:

No, no, no. And that’s it.

Tom:

That’s the end of the hack three days. Two days. Day. I don’t know.

Russell:

Day.

Tom:

Hack trip.

Dan:

I’ll miss podcasting in the garden.

Tom:

Yeah, it’s been nice.

Christy:

Three days, two near death experiences and one podcast. Thanks, Russ.

Russell:

Cheers, guys.

Christy:

Thanks, Tom.

Tom:

Cheers.

Christy:

Thanks, Dan.

Dan:

Go fuck yourself.

Christy:

You can find us on iTunes and all other retailers.

Tom:

wearelighthouse.com

Russell:

Sweet.

Dan:

Thanks for listening.

Tom:

Incredibly professional podcast.

Dan:

Bye!